The Thinking 

Wooing Feminists, cont.

September 1, 2010


BRANDON B. writes:

I have a few thoughts on your recent post  on “Romancing a Feminist.” 

I’ve found that while most young women may conform to the liberal order, many of them have latent traditional impulses that need to be drawn out. More on how to do this in a moment. As has been mentioned by others,  many women are simply liberal for the most superficial reasons i.e., pure and unadulterated conformity to society and their peer group. This is understandable. It’s very feminine to be this reponsive. 

My traditional girlfriend voted for Obama (I met her soon after the 2008 election). So did her traditional grandmother and her TV-addicted single mother. What were their reasons? The grandmother: “He’s young and will probably bring a fresh perspective to the office of the president.” The mother: “He may do great things” and “At least he’s not Bush.” My girlfriend herself calls her own vote a moment of “temporary insanity” and admits she voted for Obama simply because everyone else around her did. 

My girlfriend was politically apathetic for the most part when I met her but had imbibed all of the same liberal and PC platitudes our generation has been fed since birth. She just took them for granted without reflection. 

Now, getting back to how to draw out the traditionalism inherent in many young women. There are two things that have worked very well for me. These are honesty and passion. It’s an attractive combination in a world that cares for so little and thrives on lies. If you are real and honest, with a passion for the rightness of your traditional worldview, you will win the respect of many women, young or old. Don’t ever back down or be ashamed of your views, just express them with honesty, confidence, and class. Throw in a little humor if you like. For example, right after I met my girlfriend we were talking about women in the military and I said “I know you may think I’m a Neanderthal for opposing this, but SO BE IT.” We shared a good laugh and she eventually agreed with me. 

Another good thing is to teach a young woman to think for herself. Many haven’t had any role models in this area so naturally just conform to society’s line of thinking without question. I’ve been doing this for the past two years with my girlfriend and she has changed her mind considerably. Just last night, I asked her if there was an initiative to end women’s suffrage, would she vote for it? She responded that if it would mean the end of feminism, she would.

                                  — Comments —

Peter S. writes:

On the issue of liberal women and their latent traditional impulses, I am immediately familiar with a handful of instances of women whose lifestyles are quite conservative, even traditional: largely or entirely chaste prior to their marriages; to all appearances faithful and well settled within their married lives; predominantly taken up with the raising of their children, with their husbands as primary breadwinners, although they might pursue part-time work as their circumstances permit or require; well ordered in their personal lives, without disordering habits such as alcoholism or drug use; well integrated socially within their larger community; regularly attending communal religious observance, even if in some instances they might not be particularly religious in outlook. Yet, these same women are entirely liberal in their identity politics and, further, apparently feel no sense of disconnect between their political and cultural views and the manner of their lives. I suspect that this is a pattern not at all uncommon.

Heady G. writes:

Brandon B writes: 

“express them with honesty, confidence, and class.” Right on!

 My girlfriend wants to have that standard Sex in the City attitude. I just stand strong every time feminism attempts to ruin us. There will be times… She knows where I stand on certain issues and she is glad. I am her stability and truthful care in a twisted world where people don’t know how to value monogamy and tradition. We understand that if we all want to Eat, Pray, and Love Ourselves then I would have been running around on her trying to find the most career-oriented woman. Or we could be hippie, dippie New Agey Oprah sycophant deadheads but know our relationship would turn out to be just as much fluff. And many feminist women know it, when they are not busy being narcissistic thrill-seeking pop culture followers. Would I rather follow Jesus than Lady Gaga? Yeah, I would (He has better stage presence too.)

And she and I still go head-to-head on things, but I stand strong and state my view and move on and just let it percolate and then we see it play out in real life. The truth is since I have become a more traditional male over the last 6 months, our relationship has improved, we respect each other more, have more fun, and feel more secure with each other, and are far more open. I know we may have future debates a.k.a. arguments. And I know I will exhibit my “close-minded, dated, controlling, and oppressive views” her words. But after it all, there is no doubt about who loves her. And surprisingly, its not her women studies prof at UVM. 

The truth is she is as traditional as a lot of women who try to hide it. Its just hard to be different then most your own age… at first. When we have real discussions and we are honest, she wants to stay home and be a mother. And I am working to make that happen. She is older and has always worked and earns more. (What?!!?) Which is probably a different thread all together. But awareness will help us rise above the mire.

It will always be difficult for us to live these values in a world where our female contemporaries will bite our “chauvinistic” heads off. But its reassuring to read these posts and have men five years older want to hear what I have to say. Should I tell them I learned a lot how to be a man by listening to a housewife? 

Josh F. writes:

I think it’s a subconsciously-based traditionalist error to equate all  females as women. Liberal females — if we are to assume “liberal” as  highest principle, an all-accepting indiscriminancy (nondiscrimination/ tolerance) — are most definitely not women. It’s like claiming a male with a sexual aversion to females and sexual attraction to other males  can be a man.

There is no need to woo liberal females. There is a need to make them women with the idea that we males have made ourselves men. There is a need to define man – he is not all-inclusive. Neither is it to be a woman. Man and woman are exclusive  entities and to characterize liberal females as women destroys the  exclusive notion of woman.

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