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Race and Love Reconsidered

 

MICHAEL D. writes:

Thank you so much for bravely discussing the topic of miscegenation on your website. Of all the subjects covered, this has had the most significant impact on me. When I first encountered your website in 2010, I was dating an Asian girl and at the time, whilst I am a conservative, I genuinely believed the liberal nonsense that race does not matter in relationships. When my girlfriend at the time asked me to nominate the important qualities I seek in a girl, race was a long way down the list and I told her it was simply not a factor. I read every post in your archives on race and I realised how wrong I was. Thereafter I spent many hours deeply reflecting on this, and within a few weeks I had utterly convinced myself that miscegenation is wrong, against God’s natural order and it will lead to the sad destruction of my people, whom I esteem and care about very much. I explained everything to my mum, who played the devil’s advocate but completely agreed with me. When I explained it to my girlfriend she took it really well and understood my viewpoint. Thank you for helping me to see the light, and I completely agree with everything you have written on the subject.

You write,

I do think many white women feel they owe themselves to black men and that this explains the overwhelmingly excessive affection Mrs. Ripa shows here. This, and the rise of interracial pairing, is the logical end of the wilful obliteration of common sense about race. It means white women will in some significant number of cases prefer black men as mates.

You are absolutely right and I have seen a tragic example of this occur in a young woman I know. She genuinely despised her own race and people to the extent that she wished to marry a black man in order to eradicate her white lineage because she was so ashamed of and repelled by it. This is the result of absorbing liberal guilt for years and I was appalled.

In my home society in New Zealand, I have experienced white women effectively and strongly stigmatise interracial dating. In groups and in family conversations they will wistfully suggest that any man who dates an Asian girl does so evidently because he cannot handle a real woman like his mother and sisters; that is, he would rather play with a pliant little doll than rise to the challenge and rewards of pursuing a European woman. His father, grandfather and the real men who created this country out of a wild bushland did not stoop to such behaviour. Moreover they will be reluctant to accept an Asian girl into the family because she is not, and will never be, one of them. Dating an Asian girl is proof that he is a beta male and they genuinely pity him for what he has allowed himself to become. Where I live in Australia interracial dating is much more acceptable and common. The absence of social stigma is a reason why I entered into a relationship with an Asian girl in the first place. Were I back home, this would absolutely never happen. My next girlfriend was openly disappointed in me when I admitted that her predecessor is Asian. The converse is true too; several years ago my sister dated an Indian man and it was made abundantly clear to her that the men of our family would never accept him. He did not last long.

I am interested to know, does the same situation occurs in America in the South? I know that miscegenation was illegal in some Southern states until only a few decades ago.

Laura writes:

Thank you for your appreciation and for your thoughtful interpretation of what I have said on this difficult subject.

It wasn’t all that many years ago that the Broadway play and musical South Pacific caused a sensation when it featured a European who had had a Polynesian wife and an American with a Polynesian woman. The reaction to the play would seem barbaric to Americans today. The stigma against interracial marriage has even evaporated in the South. Maybe not entirely; the phenomenon is possibly less common there. I would have to look into that.

You write:

In my home society in New Zealand, I have experienced white women effectively and strongly stigmatise interracial dating. In groups and in family conversations they will wistfully suggest that any man who dates an Asian girl does so evidently because he cannot handle a real woman like his mother and sisters; that is, he would rather play with a pliant little doll than rise to the challenge and rewards of pursuing a European woman.

That’s interesting. This attitude has made no inroads among American women. For all their vaunted assertiveness, they do not disparage white men who choose Asian women, probably because white Americans lack all wisdom regarding marriage and will not acknowledge race differences except to abuse themselves. My impression is that black women, however, do make their feelings known about black men with white women. However, any criticism of theirs has not been very effective.

—– Comments ——

Hurricane Betsy writes:

Michael D. writes:

“[H]e would rather play with a pliant little doll than rise to the challenge and rewards of pursuing a European woman.”

I can assure you that Asian women are anything but pliant little dolls. This is the way they are presented in old Hollywood films and it may have been true 100 years ago (Madame Butterfly?). This is no longer the case. Asian women who take up with white men have an agenda. I’ll leave it at that. Women attracted to beta males are by definition totally self-involved. Running after Asian women is not only a sign of weakness, but a pathetic attempt to latch onto someone they perceive as even weaker than themselves. After the marriage, they find out otherwise.

Graham writes:

I have a brother and a cousin in Australia who are married to Asian women. That certainly supports Michael’s claim that interracial dating is acceptable and common there. I have not heard any remarks from my aunt or my sisters to the effect that this reflects any sort of weakness on the part of my brother or cousin. My aunt is principally very happy that he’s married at all! I do not consider my brother or cousin especially “beta” — when they were single, they were not womanizers, but neither were they losers who couldn’t get a date. They are not weak men, but their wives are not weak, either, and their husbands knew this before they married them. So I’m not sure I agree with “Hurricane Betsy” on that score.

Ironically, both my cousin and my brother married when they were past 30. Both wives are in their early 30s, and are having trouble conceiving. Artificial methods are actively under discussion. Four more victims of the “party in your 20s and have kids in your 30s” phenomenon…

John writes:

Feminism is far less pro-woman than it is anti-western culture and anti-white traditional male. Feminists had few complaints against Slick Wille Clinton, the rapist and woman abuser. After all he was promoting the left’s agenda. And feminists don’t mind mass immigration from Third World misogynist cultures. A female friend of mine called the office of the National Organization of Women about this issue, and their spokeswoman told her that it wasn’t one of their concerns. But what a great way to wreck the West! Then there’s the woman hating influence of rap music, a significant cultural force. in our society. Do feminists object? Not all all. After all, it’s black and degenerate. And finally, let’s not forget that feminist in Norway who advised women there to cope with the Muslim rape culture for the sake of diversity.

Yes, the white traditional male is the target to be destroyed. And once he’s down certain elements of diversity will have white women for purposes I don’t think I need to elaborate.

Aaron S. writes:

This is an interesting discussion on race and love. I’ve been happily married to an Asian woman for eleven years now. I have a few small thoughts to add, for whatever they’re worth.

First, I understand Michael D’s case, and agree with it in the main, though I (obviously) would not go so far as to use the word “sin.” I would have a hard time explaining that to my otherwise-happy children, if nothing else!

Theology aside, I would say that there are plenty of matters where for the sake of a people or a society we ought to tread carefully. However, not all sensible prescriptions have the universal character of Newtonian laws. In fact, I’d say most don’t — in most human affairs, we make do with generality.

My take is that some discouraging is necessary. Perhaps more is needed now than at other times, since interracial pairings have become not only fashionable, but unduly laden with political/social overtones, forces which no good marriage should have to bear. In the natural course of things — that is, where ideology has not made a good of miscegenation — the exceptions are more easily borne by society and indeed are more rare.

However, if Michael sincerely believes that interracial marriages are a violation of nature, say, on the order of homosexuality, then I don’t entertain the possibility of changing his mind. I’ll respect his view but I don’t agree with it. Perhaps others might consider the point this way, though: heeding a natural order means paying attention to things that have natures. Societies do indeed have natures, as do men and women. But it would seem a mistake to conflate these things (that is, gender and nationhood) as possessing similar degrees of fixity, or as admitting equivalent, or even roughly commensurate, degrees of alteration while remaining identifiable, self-same entities.

A second point — less metaphysically abstract — concerns Michael and Hurricane Betsy’s observations on the reasoning of women who berate men for taking “pliant little dolls” who “can’t handle European women.” I believe you are incorrect in maintaining that such an attitude has made no inroads among American women. The difference is that such a line of reasoning is not taken up here by traditional women as a move against miscegenation or as a protection of traditional western female prerogatives. If such were the case, the attitude would be understandable and useful. Rather, one hears it — not infrequently — from the sexually loose feminist career types who resent that enough men look elsewhere for mates when the supply of traditional-minded American women is so perilously low.

This is not to excuse such a calculation on the part of the men, nor is it to deny that there are still cases that go beyond the seeking of “traditional” women to the desire of having a “pliant doll.” The point is that one does hear such charges made frequently; they fall on deaf ears with men precisely because they are made by the kinds of women your website identifies and dissects so effectively. This type of argument comes up regularly in the “manosphere,” where the idea of seeking brides from non-Western countries gets active promotion. Google some phrases like “Western men in china” or “Western men chinese women” and you will witness on various fora the malicious glee that many Western men register when their prospects broaden so noticeably overseas. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that such a pattern is not healthy or sustainable for either side, but it is certainly a lot easier than fighting feminism over here. In any case, there is much laughter at the “pliant little dolls” reasoning as being a transparent rationalization. Perhaps in New Zealand this line still serves traditional ends, so all the power to them. But I’d say we’re some distance from where this idea could have a positive effect here.

Laura writes:

Interesting. Thank you for writing.

Regarding Aaron’s point about homosexuality, interracial marriage is often imprudent, selfish and confounding, but it is not at all a violation of nature on the order of homosexuality. (I assume Michael would strongly agree.)

Aaron writes:

Societies do indeed have natures, as do men and women. But it would seem a mistake to conflate these things (that is, gender and nationhood) as possessing similar degrees of fixity, or as admitting equivalent, or even roughly commensurate, degrees of alteration while remaining identifiable, self-same entities.

Yes, of course. Individuality is too great to make for absolute laws on this. Interracial marriage should be strongly discouraged and come with social costs, but, as I said before, a world in which there are no interracial couples is impossible. It is neither practicable nor desirable. Such a world would require too much alienation between different peoples to sustain.

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